I’m Either Drowning or Swimming: A Conversation with Spoken Word Artist Ebony Stewart

Ebony Stewart, most affectionately known as Eb or Gully, is an author and international touring interdisciplinary artist. As a Black womxn writer and performance artist, Ebony Stewart harnesses the power of creativity to explore and challenge societal norms, personal identity, and the intersectionality of her experiences. With a spellbinding blend of storytelling, verbal fitness, and raw emotion, she captivates audiences, inviting them into a world where vulnerability becomes strength and authenticity reigns supreme. She is the author of BloodFresh, Home.Girl.Hood., and Love Letters to Balled Fists. Her work has been featured in Button Poetry, AfroPunk, and more. She has recently published WASH in January 2025.

Along with her book launch of WASH, Ebony Stewart celebrated her 10-Year Anniversary at the Vortex Theater in Austin, TX. It was so much more than a performance of her work over the years; it was a declaration, a reclaiming, a defying of natural ordinances with her poetry. I have been troubled; so many individuals didn’t get to step into the world she created through her work. My solution? An interview with Ebony Stewart. My hope is that readers gain insight into her wisdom as not only a writer but as an African American Woman and person.

Nala Washington: Upon finishing WASH, I know you talked about the collection and what it means in some of your other interviews but what exactly does the word wash mean? The most common definition of the word as a verb is to “clean with water and typically soap or detergent”, or as a noun “an act of washing something or an instance of being washed.” I decided to locate words and phrases in your poems that I thought were interesting, pertaining to the definition of wash, which was obviously “water” but then you have words like “Jamaican rain shadow”, “hurricane”, “soggy”, “wet ocean tank”, “brass tongue”, “split juice”, “mother’s tears”, etc. Talk about this some more, as in the washing within these poems.

Ebony Stewart: For me, the definition that you have is very clear at the same time when we think about the action or the act of renewing something to clean or purify, or to go back over. So sometimes it’s not necessarily the word itself, but the actual actions, then the steps for those actions, and then the outcome. For me WASH did a lot of that. It did a lot of renewing, cleaning, surging, and expanding. I just really wanted to look at the work that I already had. For instance, an older work or work that hadn’t been put into poem form, or within a manuscript, and then pair it with work that is new. And how do those works work in conversation with each other? How do they exist at the same time to make up this actual project or body of work, which is WASH.

NW: During your 10 Year Anniversary show, you stated that a lot of these poems in this collection were a revisit to old poems. You even said you revisited an old prompt from a workshop class for you. Can you talk about that a bit more in the process of cultivating your newest book [WASH], because I know some poets and artists, we look back at our old work and we cringe or feel like you’re in a completely different place.

ES: I’ve never been an artist that looks back at old work and cringes. I think that there is space and time and grace to be given to our younger selves. It’s kind of like watching that kid to say, “hey, come in here and show them what you can do.” Then that kid doesn’t really do anything magical or fantastic, right? Then they go off, and they’re Michael Jackson, or whatever. Not in any stretch of the imagination is WASH Michael Jackson! What I’m intending to say is that for me, looking back at old work, I really just want to see if I can challenge myself to come to it with the thought process I have now. It’s kind of like an undoing or a way to recreate. How was this work used before? So some of the poems in WASH are from writing prompts from when I was an undergrad and then there’s also, work that just didn’t fully get used. The 1st poem after the table of contents goes “Hello, rain shadow. Hello!” some of the things that you were describing before. That’s from Ocean, my One Woman Show. When I’m thinking about that, how do I turn these monologues into poems? Or how do I turn this essay that I wrote a long time ago and take the bits and pieces from it and turn it into a poem? I think that’s just really creative of us as artists, to utilize language in a way that bends, or folds, and doesn’t just stay in its own square. It literally does what WASH says. It expands, it moves.

NW: You mentioned the poem “Hello!” which is in the beginning of your book, and you cover an array of themes within your poems such as sexual assault, domestic violence, violence against women, loss, infertility, regaining one’s womanhood, and honestly, just simply being. There were also these moments that you put here in the collection in these big block bold letters such as “There was once a girl who overwatered her plants because she didn’t know when to stop giving” or “Did you drink water did you eat, yet how does your heart feel?” Was this something you were actively practicing while writing about these very taxing themes, why include them?

ES: Yes, these are things that I’m actually practicing as I’m working, because for artists, as you know, it takes a lot of work to create. I think people think that our brains just naturally do a thing, and that it doesn’t take all of this extra work, space, and time to create. You do have to add those reminders. I’m a person that’s a little bit of a workhorse at times, so it’s like, oh, did you? Or are you just continuously working on the work? So, yes, in some ways it’s acting as a reminder to myself, and then other ways acting as a reminder to the reader. How do I take care of the reader while they’re reading this work because it does do a lot of roller coaster rides and has us tackle different things from even just the topics that you mentioned. There’s a responsibility that I have to the reader to take care, I feel.

For instance, the one that you said about “there once was a girl”, basically the act of over watering flowers or plants is the number one way to kill any plant. It’s so wild because you think that you’re taking care by watering something, but everything has its limits. You can actually overdo anything, even with just the act of water that’s supposed to be good for us. If my body is a plant and I overwater it, what does that look like? Versus me over watering an actual plant. I was talking a lot about my grief and I included that because that was so prominent to the work that’s happening before and after. I think the poem that happens after might be “Stalemate” and then the poem before is “Fibroids.” Women carry water, so how does that exist, those words, within those two poems and what am I talking about? I’m either drowning or swimming.

NW: During your 10 Year Anniversary show you stated some of your grief poems you have kept at an “arm’s length.” How’s your relationship with grief at this present moment? Are you two in a better place since releasing WASH?

ES: The arm’s length piece is a little bit to distinguish other works. My next two projects that I’m trying to work on, one of them is just dedicated to my grief. I don’t want to always get ahead of myself, how do I keep this over there while staying present in this? Our relationship, it’s a constant and steady, always there. If I keep with this extended metaphor of washing and to break open right, have you ever started crying and couldn’t stop? I’m a person that does not like to cry, because I can’t guarantee the stop or the duration of how long this is gonna last. In some ways I’ve just given my grief permission to exist and work with me while I’m existing in this life. I don’t know if we’re in a better place? It’s just more or less it happens unexpectedly. There was a bit of a flood that took place with writing WASH.

NW: I want to talk about you being a poet, while also being a spoken word artist, which I feel like are two different things that overlap. I’ve been told pieces have to translate to the page just as effectively to the stage. How do you find the happy medium between the two, if there’s one? I’m thinking about the poems, “Labyrinth: A Maze Difficult to Solve” “Dragonflies” and “Supernova.”

ES: Those three that you named I have not performed them live to know even what their full potential are. The “Labyrinth” one, it literally is a maze that’s difficult to solve on the page. How do I do that in action and/or on the stage? Maybe that’s a theater piece or maybe that’s for a One Woman Show. Maybe that’s a piece that I start, stop, and say I’m not sure, or ask the audience, which way should I go? What I do like about that poem that has brought me a lot of joy, because I don’t think every poem has to go on stage or has to be performed, is when I’ve talked to other people, specifically Women, that have read that poem and they’re like yo, I thought I had it figured out, and then I get lost, or I hit a block, or I’m like, wait, what? It doesn’t make sense anymore. I feel like a lot of times, that’s just how I’m navigating my life. In some ways it’s just taking liberties to take chances, that we’ll figure it out. I’m not really sure how we’ll perform that one.

The “Dragonflies” piece, when I have read it out loud to friends in a group, there’s a little bit of playfulness in tone. How loud to say something, how quiet to say something that I’ve played with or thought about, but haven’t really got to put it up in front of an audience yet to see if it’s even effective in that way. With “Supernova” I think it’s got to be performed big, be like a wave crashing up against a rock. In my mind, it’s got to be powerful, it’s got to be larger than life if you will. People got to be kind of scared of it and in some ways, I gotta be scared to perform it. The trope of whatever people think about Black Women being too loud or angry, in all the while being super loving. I like that “Supernova” does all of that work.

NW: As a Black Woman writer myself, I find it a bit difficult to employ profanity within my poems or the naming of oneself in my work. You’ve done that several times within these poems and previous poems, is this liberating for you?

ES: What happened with WASH I almost ducked out of that. I almost didn’t want to identify myself because I got nervous like, yo, is this keeping me from getting to a certain place? Or is this telling other people that this isn’t for them? Or does this now make me oh, she’s a Black author. I decided to add the poem, “Dark Star” last minute because I just wasn’t sure if I wanted to be identified. I came to the conclusion that I am a Black Woman, and I don’t have any shame around that. I am who I am is who I am, and I was who I was before I got here. Whatever you think about me is between you and yourself, that don’t got nothing to do with me. I’m not gonna dim my light, definitely not gonna be closed off or silenced in that thought process. Let me honor Black Women because I can’t do anything without us. I’ve done so much because of Black Women that I think that it’s just necessary to continuously pay homage and identify, recognize myself.

Using profanity and language? It is a thing and I actually watered it down quite a bit in this body of work. I didn’t use as much profanity as I could have, or that I enjoy using in everyday language. I think a little bit of that was because I know that some people do get turned off by profanity? I also wanted this work to exist in different spaces, trying to think ahead; what is this like in a high school classroom? How is this used in curriculum? I mostly write my work using profanity, and when I use it I feel like it’s necessary in that moment and I’m using it for the people that don’t cringe, that don’t cower or don’t get affected. I do think that profanity is language, and it’s a part of the English language. It should be and can be utilized, and I’m not abusive with it.

NW: During your 10 Year Anniversary Show, you stated along the lines of not wanting to be this famous or well-liked poet. Those who are aware of your work, know that you made the conscious decision to be a full-time artist, which was at the Vortex Theater in 2015. What has it meant for you and your journey releasing WASH at such a milestone?

ES: When I set out to be a full time artist, I didn’t say that I wanted to be famous, well known, win all the slams. I said I wanted to be a full time artist, and support my work with my art. Because I’ve done that, I’m so proud of myself. At the 10 Year Anniversary show I asked everyone to think about every bill they have, every single bill they have that has to get paid even the stuff on auto pay. I’m proud of myself, that I’ve been able to take care of myself with my art and completely provide for myself with my art. My family, friends, and people that have supported me, even those that don’t know me, they’re like, I saw this title or a ButtonPoetry put out this book, and I’m going to check it out, that’s all the support. I am proud of myself. I’m proud that I have done that and have accomplished that. There was a lot of times when people told me that I couldn’t do it, or they just couldn’t imagine what I imagined for myself, because they couldn’t imagine it for themselves. It’s an honor to be able to pop my collar, if you will. For me, I just made a way for myself or my poetry made room for me and, man, that’s so cool. What a blessing!

NW: Just to wrap everything up, any advice for us poets who are coming up just wanting to do what we love?

ES: Taking a breath and deciding what you really want to do with your work. Oftentimes we create, based on what somebody told us that they wanted us to create, or it was for an assignment, etc. It’s kind of like take whatever it is that someone gave you, if it was a bad grade or it didn’t fully manifest into what they wanted it to turn into, look at it, and see what else you can do with it. Be your own puppet master, be your own wizard, be your own dark knight in this writing thing. Pick up your swords, use your shovel, the pen can be that if you want it to be, and really tap into who it is that you want to be. Don’t be afraid to change who you already are. A lot of what we already know is based on somebody else’s work.What’s going to make it so brilliantly you is that you’re bringing you into the conversation with whatever you create. I’m excited about every single piece of anything that somebody creates, because it’s like yo, who knows what this is gonna be. I hope that new artists or just want to be full-time artists, live and breathe off of their work, I hope that you stay excited. I hope that you stay dedicated to being excited because it’s such a chore and a task to be happy with what you create. It’s real easy to find the bad or the not so good, or this could have been better but there’s a lot of people that can’t do what we do.There’s a lot of people that don’t do what we do like. The writers create everything. We make everything that much more real. Stay excited, be motivated, don’t be scared to take risks and/or revamp something that you thought was old.